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Re: rti to cmo for mlc information 
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Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:44 am
Posts: 56
Poppinder ji,
Since i am not able to view or reply the post i am creating a new post and i dont hav any other internet conn. than this
How my rti be consider as an third party even tough it is regarding my life and the information is about the information on mlc of my wife, i have Mentioned it on rti
And no faa is mentioned on website, searched the whole website plz suggest me right method now and
Shuld i go for fa or should i wait for some more time,
Reply me plz on urgent basis


Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:43 am
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Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:03 am
Posts: 3053
Rachit,
You already have my PM please check and revert for help if any.


Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:51 am
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Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:44 am
Posts: 56
Poppinder ji
My wife's mama who is the main villian if this story has done a fraud of several 100 crores
He has taken a loan of several crores 17 years back frm different banks and upfc against his property, but didnt paid it back, and his file is in d.m. office
I have written about it to adm, dm of bareilly, under secretary, deputy secretary and chief secretary of the u.p. government, but I am not able to know that any investigation has been initiated or not? How can I?
Plz help on this also
And how this fraud can be bought in front of the whole city?


Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:23 am
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Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:03 am
Posts: 3053
Rachit,
I do not know if all this can be substantiated ;100 cr is a big amount even in politics.
I can offer you a tip:- these guys are important in UP govt and are attached to CM
Shri Rakesh garg tel:-05222238044 Chief secy.
Smt Anita singh 05222237135 secretary
Sh.Shambhu singh Yadav 05222235622 spl.secy.
may be they like to hear you and then ask you to send a complaint in writing.


Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:57 am
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Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:30 pm
Posts: 4740
File RTI for action taken report n all


Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:53 pm
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Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:44 am
Posts: 56
Can u plz send the format of rti for action taken report?
Shall it be filed under life and liberty act otherwise i will get a reply in 1 month
Shall i send it to cmo?


Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:17 pm
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Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:30 pm
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>> Though i dont have a ready made format.....but its not that difficult to write, questions depend upon ur specific case. If need be, prepare it & send via pm, i can go thru.
>> Members may have tasted success under LIFE & LIBERTY CLAUSE, but i dont believe this clause actually helps in practice. If PIO acts smart, he may contest this very point in reply/appeal......that whether the application lies under LIFE & LIBERTY CLAUSE or not...............lo kar lo baat, our train goes into wrong direction!


Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:53 pm
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Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:44 am
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If cmo feels that this rti doesnt comes under life and liberty act, will he reject it?
If the rti doesnt comes under life and liberty act will he bound to send a reply within 30 days on same rti?
Shall i send the same rti again but without a life and liberty clause?
How shall i know what happened with my first rti?


Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:05 am
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PIO is bound to give reply within stipulated time......may be in the form of info-released OR application rejected. In latter case he is bound to mention RTI act sections under which he has rejected the application.
If he does nt stick 2 these provisions, u file 1st appeal


Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:38 am
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Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:44 am
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I have sended a letter to cmo today seeking the action taken report on my rti as i didn't got any reply yet and marked the cc. To principal secretary and minister of health and family welfare

Shall i file another rti without life and liberty clause?


Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:50 pm
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Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:30 pm
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Sending letter about Action Taken Report on RTI is like PUTTING CART BEFORE THE HORSE
Even if PIO thought that its not under LIFE & LIBERTY CLAUSE, he was supposed to inform u in writing. U claim from ur side that its in this clause, its his choice to contest it or not. The action expected from ur side is 1st APPEAL AFTER 10 DAYS U POSTED UR RTI APPLICATION

Then we wil see wat PIO has 2 tel infront of FAA
gal


Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:13 pm
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Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:04 am
Posts: 522
@rachit

When there is a predefined system on how to approach the govt. officials to get information, follow the procedure. If u go the other way then ur application will be considered as weak.

P.S : There is already a pavement created for the fellow citizens to get the required information from govt.machinery. So u can cooly travel in it as advised by galsoberji...


Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:54 pm
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Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:44 am
Posts: 56
Recieved the reply today on my rti on mlc information
But he didnt gave the information on mlc, he mentioned that the information sought is regarding the third party and can not be given prior the approval of my wife and hence sended the letter to her seeking the permission from her( my wife)
How can be the doctor be screwed for making farji mlc and how it can be porooved that the mlc is farji and prepaired after vitamin m

Plz also suggest me that how can i b able to see my son,
4 months has been passed niether i have seen him nor talked to him, even on phone also


Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:49 pm
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Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:04 am
Posts: 522
Check ur PM brother..


Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:26 pm
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Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:44 am
Posts: 56
Please guide me how to screw the concerned doctor who has prepaired the fake mlc?


Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:42 pm
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Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:44 am
Posts: 56
1. I have read somewhere in siff that it is mandatory for a doctor who issues a mlc, to issue a discharge card
Is it true?
As in my previous rti I have asked the pio tht whether the discharge card has been issued to my wife or not?
He replied, since she was not admitted hence no discharge card

2. Also read The doctor issued mlc should take in written from the patient to whom the mlc was issued, about the discharge request and he can take care himself.
Is it true?
In my rti's reply no such undertaking was sought from my wife.

3. The firstmost duty of the doctor is to provide the relief to the patient whether the case shud be of any nature.
But in reply of my rti no treatment or prescription was given to my wife?

4. A gents doctor issued a mlc to my wife nor a lady doctor

5. Is it mandatory for a doctor issuing a mlc, to mention the height/weight in mlc of the patient?

6. Is it mandatory to take the photographs of the injuries?

Now can be screw the doctor on the above mentioned point? Also how it can be proove that the mlc was forged?
Plz suggest


Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:23 am
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Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:30 pm
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Though discussed in detail in some thread a few months ago about MLC matters, but repeating the relevant points again:
When a patient reports a govt hospital WITH ALLEGED MEDICOLEGAL INJURIES, doctor hes to
1) Inform nearest Police Station in writing with date & time of arrival with all details of patient
2) Provide immediate medical care to patient, assess his injuries, take consent for MLR, admit him, conduct ML examination, advise X-rays/investigations. Patient submits the necessary fee too. In MLR no photograph is to be taken by doc. He mentions NATURE OF INJURY, TIME OF INJURY in his final opinion. The rough marks are represented & injuries are numbered also. He may keep the final opinion reserved pending the X-ray/CT scan reports.
No weight/height is mentioned. IDENTITY MARK, THUMB IMPRESSION/SIGNATURES are taken at a few places.
3) Police arrives within 24 hours, takes written permission from doctor to declare the patient medically fit to make statements, does needful & applies appropriate IPC section.
4) Depending upon medical condition, patient is kept admitted in hospital for 2-3 days or is referred.
5) Opinion may be sought from specialist doctos also if needed
6) Police may request for MLR by a BOARD OF DOCTORS TOO.
7) Unless its a sexual assault, male doctor may do all this, nothing wrong. At the most he may keep a nurse by his side while examining lady ML patient.
8) Patient may say that HE/SHE DOES NOT WANT ANY POLICE ACTION AND HIS INJURY IS MERE DOMESTIC ONE......he gives this in writing and if doctor is convinced, he is given medical treatment only without informing the police. But if there is some foul play suspected, doctor has duty to inform police at least
9) patient may directly report ML injury at police station. In that case, police itself brings the patient to hospital & process is completed
gal


Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:44 am
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Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:44 am
Posts: 56
In my case as in the reply of my rti, the pio replied
She has been brought by the police and she has not been admitted, nor any discharge card has been issued to her
No prescription has been given to her
Nor any thing has been taken in written regarding the discharge nor she has been referred
Can it be treated as the negligence of duty on the part of doctor?
Is there is any way on which the mlc can be prooved as a forged mlc?
More over i reply of my previous rti the pio replied that the mlc falls under third party info. And cant be provided prior to the permission of my wife wnd hence a letter has been sened to my wife to sought the permission from her that mlc shall be provided to me or not


Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:21 am
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Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:44 am
Posts: 56
Can anyone will guide me how to screw the doc. Who prepaired forged mlc?


Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:04 am
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Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:04 am
Posts: 522
First u have to prove the MLC is a forged one in trial, later u can screw the doc.

U can trouble the doc by simply filing an RTI to his dept and inquire about his past records, Any disciplinary action was taken against him, His property declaration, His transfer details, Dowry declaration of his daughter's marriage if any, Dowry he got during his son's marriage and all the other detials of the government employee.. File separate RTI for each and ask ur relatives/friends to do that. This wont do any harm to him but will instigate fear in him so during trial he will be under pressure..


Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:07 am
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Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:44 am
Posts: 56
Thanks for the reply it was really nice
Plz suggest some more points.
Can i also file qn rti tht why he has not given any treatment to my wife and why he has not taken a request for discharge from my wife in written?

Plz suggest some more points

And Under which section of rti, these points will be covered as suggested by you?


Last edited by rachit on Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:24 am
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Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:04 am
Posts: 522
rachit wrote:
Thanks for the reply it was really nice
Plz suggest some more points.
Can i also file qn rti tht why he has not given any treatment to my wife and why he has not taken a request for discharge from my wife in written?

U can file any RTI u like if u feel it will be of any help to u.


Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:33 am
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Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:44 am
Posts: 56
Plz suggest some more points

And Under which section of rti, these points will be covered as suggested by you?


Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:43 am
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Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:51 pm
Posts: 21
Please help me for getting RTI Information as per below information :
I made an RTI application for getting MLC Copy of my wife which she has undergone without my knowledge, and to a very small injury which she got on her own. We were living together at that time and her father helped her with this false MLC for future references.
Now the PIO has rejected to disclose the information under Sectionn 8 of RTI Act and replied that I can appeal within 30 days if unsatisfied.
I hope there must be some remedy.
Can you guide me with format for making first appeal ?
Do I need to pay again for the application ?
Can I apply after 30 days also as I am travelling currently or Can I simply post the First appeal application ?
Can you send some support like CIC judgements in regard to getting MLC Copy ?
The above information would be very useful to me.
Thanks in advance.


Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:59 pm
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Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:30 pm
Posts: 4740
Maximum efforts shud be done while u draft RIGHT RTI QUESTIONS. Now he has evoked Sec8, u can not re-apply same points in fresh RTI. Appeal wil also fall flat if the grounds of rejection are solid, may be possible that u drafted wrong questions.

P.S: recently i finalized similar RTI with member 'phasgaya' or 'virender' (cant remember exactly). u send PM to them 2 share what we drafted in RTI for fake mlc


Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:05 pm
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Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:01 pm
Posts: 67
One basic fact regarding the ownership, is that the medicolegal documents, especially the post-mortem report belongs to the requestor i.e. the police and the same is held by the doctor in fiduciary relationship.

It was decided in Baba Gurcharan's case in eighties, a MLC becomes a public document only when it is filed in the court.

In a 12 Jan 2010 judgment by Delhi High Court, a bench comprising Chief Justice A P Shah and Justices S Muralidhar and Vikramjeet Sen decided that medical details of an individual cannot be made public and cannot be given under RTI.


Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:38 pm
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Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:51 pm
Posts: 21
Galsober,

I tried to find Virender and Phasgaya but my profile shows them as inactive members.

Also, my wife got some burns while cooking 5-7% and she went to her house for rest.
But her father assisted her in an MLC which is mentioned in the complaint.
I did not knew about this.

I have written a simple RTI Application to PIO to provide me with MLC Copy as per the details mentioned by my wife in the complaint.
The PIO first sent a letter addressed to my wife at my residence address asking her whether to disclose this information or not, but she is not living in our house currently, so no reply to PIO from herside.

But now PIO has rejected the application and asked to appeal if unsatisfied.

I was referring a CIC Decision attached below, Can this help :

Central Information Commission
Central Information Commission
Mr.Mansa Ram Sisodia vs Mcd, Gnct Delhi on 3 August, 2010
CENTRAL INFORMATION COMMISSION

Can you help me with Draft of First Appeal if outcomes are positive or a fresh RTI Application.
Thanks in Advance


dt


Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:03 pm
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Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:01 pm
Posts: 67
MR Delhi,

Your RTI is rejected on basis of Section 8(d) But judgement you are referring is Mr.Mansa Ram Sisodia vs Mcd, Gnct Delhi on 3 August, 2010

Read out full judgement It quotes PIO has relied on booklet regarding guidelines for MLC cases by the Head of the Forensic Department for non supply of MLC thats why ordered by CIC as RTI Act has an overriding effect on all earlier Acts as far as disclosure of the information is concerned.

As far your Case is concerned RTI was rejected due Sec 8(d) clause. Your RTI would have been rejected due third party detail or fiduciary relationship hence your First appeal would be decided if you prove that information you sought has larger public interest.

Send me your RTI and PIO order via scanned document. Let me nail FAA for knowledge of RTI Act.


Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:41 pm
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Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:30 pm
Posts: 4740
dtdelhi wrote:
Galsober,

I tried to find Virender and Phasgaya but my profile shows them as inactive members.

Also, my wife got some burns while cooking 5-7% and she went to her house for rest.
But her father assisted her in an MLC which is mentioned in the complaint.
I did not knew about this.

I have written a simple RTI Application to PIO to provide me with MLC Copy as per the details mentioned by my wife in the complaint.
The PIO first sent a letter addressed to my wife at my residence address asking her whether to disclose this information or not, but she is not living in our house currently, so no reply to PIO from herside.

But now PIO has rejected the application and asked to appeal if unsatisfied.

I was referring a CIC Decision attached below, Can this help :

Central Information Commission
Central Information Commission
Mr.Mansa Ram Sisodia vs Mcd, Gnct Delhi on 3 August, 2010
CENTRAL INFORMATION COMMISSION

Can you help me with Draft of First Appeal if outcomes are positive or a fresh RTI Application.
Thanks in Advance


dt

Thats what i am telling........drafting counts much weight in RTI.
Suppose burn related MLR lies on 15-01-13, better draft:
DO NOT APPLY IT IN UR NAME OR ADDRESS, LET A 3RD PERSON FROM DIFFERENT STATE APPLY:
1) Does ur hospital deal with roadside accidents, burn cases, poisoning cases, medicolegal injuries?
2) Is there 24 hrs emergency medical officer available to tackel medical emergencies? Provide me cert copy of duty roaster of emerg med officers for 01-01-13 to 31-03-13
3) Provide in tabulated for the name of patient, address, father name, brought by, treated by, whether police informed or not, date of admission & date of discharge of Burn cases reported during this period
4) Same for Medicolegal Injuries
5) Provide me certified copies of MLRs of Burn Cases who received <50% burns
6) Same for MLRs who show grevious hurt with sharp weapons
7) List of emergency cases which were referred to higher center amongst them

I think, MOTIVE OF INFO GETS MASKED THIS WAY n rejection is less likely


Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:22 pm
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